This turkey thing is an interesting, sticky spot that I can remember being in, sort of. I brought my 3 girls to visit a very small farm owned by a friend. We were bringing apples from our trees for the horses. He said, come on in the back and help me hustle the chickens into their house. The girls were delighted. Then he brought them and us into the pig barn and let them take turns sitting on this enormous pig. I think the girls were 6, 8, 11. One of them asked if the pig would be there next year, and he responded with a big smile, Nope, that'll be bacon in the freezer by then. I remember freezing in horror a bit because I didn't know how that would affect them (but I didn't let it show). They looked at each other in silence and then said "Oh." It wasn't so bad. That Thanksgiving (I am in New Brunswick, Canada) we had our turkey, and I remember a very small part of the table-talk was that all turkeys come from farms, somewhere....So, if it comes up and Frances happens to make the connection, maybe a simple statement like that will help her understand. All turkeys have to be raised on a farm Somewhere, and this one came from the farm she visited. Okay. Pass the peas. So on. Hope this helps..... -T

You know, I have this problem too. Here's how I get a little more comfortable with it, but it's still a burr under the old saddle -
I was a vegetarian for years, until I read...get this...Fast Food Nation. The book that should have made it certifiable to avoid meat helped me to embrace it again. What did it? One of the organic meat farmers in the book said something, perhaps about cows, to the effect of "These animals don't grow old and die happily surrounded by their families anyway."

So, having grown up on a farm, my main criteria now is - did they live well and did they die well? It's when I go to a giant supermarket and see aisles of meat rotting, more than can ever be sold, that I feel the worst pangs. You're being a conscious consumer, not a conspicuous one.

I lived in Winnipeg for awhile and really missed the local fruit markets full of fresh-picked apples and strawberries and pumpkins. (If they have those on the prairies, I didn't figure out where they were.) The farm you describe sounds like a wonderful place!

A friend of mine came to visit with her six-year-old daughter on Labour Day weekend. Last year when they visited, chicken fingers were pretty much all this girl would eat, but this year she wrinkled her nose. "I used to like chicken," she explained, "but then I found out they were birds." And I was really at a loss for a reply.

Well, you know I'm (sort of) vegan and (unsuccessfully) raising my kids that way, so I have lots of thoughts on this. I would say as long as you're honest with her and responsive to her feelings, you'll both be okay. Just don't tell her that it's okay to kill animals because they don't have souls, and no, dear, your puppy that died last week didn't go to heaven. She might resent you for it later. (What? Unresolved issues? Me?)

My mom grew up on a subsistence type farm and was very, very scarred by it. Very. It's probably why I'm a (mostly) vegetarian now.

But I do think your approach to this is a good one. It's better to eat meat from food that was raised well, both nutritiously and ethically.

If you don't make a big deal out of it, Frances probably won't either. I know I try really hard not to pass on my qualms with meat to my kids and I do it by being honest but also a little detached.

"Yes Haven adn Luc, beef is from cows and pork is from pigs but that's okay. Our bodies are made to eat meat."

We live right next door to a small farm (usually very nice, occasionally a bit stinky). Every morning last summer, I'd end my run by cooling down in front of the turkey runs and saying hi to the Turkeys. One morning in November, the turkeys were gone. That afternoon I came home to discover one of my "friends" plucked in the kitchen sink. I'm trying to remember what DH said to me, because they might have been good words for Frances-- I know that I ate the turkey.

In any event, I think that you're right about it being a good thing to know where food comes from and to feel more connected to its production.

I grew up in the rural south. My dad used to take me hunting with him. He always told me "we never kill more than we eat." He taught me to respect the life that we took, that it was a huge sacrifice made by that animal and if you had no need for the meat or no intention of eating it, it was cruel to kill. There really was no hunting for sport in our family. If we needed food we went hunting or fishing (or to the grocery store). I think , if she asks, you are honest with her about where her food comes from, but I really doubt she's quite old enough to make the connection. I don't think I did until I was five or six.

I still deal with meat guilt. Once I made the connection as a kid, I became a vegan, (though my parents were entirely unsupportive.)I still am, sometimes.
I think that when you grow up on a farm or with families that actually hunt and eat what they catch.. it's less of an issue, because you always know where it comes from, even if you don't really "get it" until an older age. The way most of us live, some of us never even see farms, and are therefore shocked when we finally make the connection, because our lives have been so.. "sanitized" I guess is the word,
I think we SHOULD be aware and reminded of where our food comes from. It's good to know where it comes from and to have respect for the fact that an animal gave its life to be your dinner. Too many people don't even think about it, and I think if more people did, there would be more of a push for food to be raised in organic healthy humane ways, and not factory farmed and given to us in sterile packages (that resemble nothing like the creatures they once were) to rot in our supermarkets. I would be matter of fact about it, but not downplay the importance of it. ( like oh, its only a turkey..)
Sorry!This is one of my favorite topics, I could go on forever!

I agree with everyone that has said that it is about balance and respect for the source of food (whether that be animal or plant) and I think that fact that you are even thinking along those lines means you are farther along in encouraging this in Frances than most people.

We have all these old B& W pictures of my dad playing with this huge goose in a kiddy pool in his backyard when he was about 3 or 4. I guess they had this goose long enough to really befriend it and name it and play with it and then one day it was gone. As an adult my dad learned it had become dinner and was totally saddened. Not so much I think that he ate that goose (although that is part of it) but that he was lied to or deceived. This wasn't on a farm but suburban Long Island. Honesty is best (age appropriate of course).

Do you call chicken chicken when you serve it? I think little kids make connections sooner than we think and we don't have to be very explicit...

Sarah, yes we do--chicken is chicken. But cows are beef and pigs are pork--hmm.

Meredith! You know the magic words and you aren't going to tell me? Some friend you are. :p

(that was a joke, in case any one of my many detractors are present to read this.)

Thanks to everyone. Lots of excellent advice an dsupport, as always.

Where is this farm you speak of? Just outside Toronto? We've been thinking about getting to one in the next few weeks and would love a recommendation.

Alice has just started to figure out that the "chicken" on her plate is the same animal as the "chickens" that live on farms. Oy.

We stopped by the farmer's market this evening and the guy who sells cheese, he said that he sells shares in a pig. That is, he has raised some pigs on the whey from the cheese and he'll slaughter them in Nov. A person can agree to buy half a pig. $1.50 a pound, you a get 70-80 lbs.

Sasha is pulling on me I'll finish my thought later...

Hey, next time you're going, let me know! I too LOVE their produce! You didn't mention the yellow beans -- they're AWESOME!! And aren't they the most pleasant people you ever met (slight exaggeration, possibly)???

OK. About the pig. You get half a pig, you can arrange to have it taken to a butcher & they'll chop 'er up for you. I imagine you'd have to store it yourself.

I was thinking about doing this. We eat a lot of sausage in this house... I was also thinking of taking the kids to see the pig. All right maybe not that *exact* pig but at least visiting the farm. My son loves to know where food came from, where things originated. My daughter is not yet aware of all that.

And Andrea: WHERE do you find the time???? I can't get to the farmer's market once a week and it's not even 2 miles from my house!

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Jennifer, if you saw the state of my bathrooms, you would understand.

Karyn, I'm probably going again this weekend--are you up for it?

Jennifer, that's what my husband's parents would do: they'd buy a half a cow, and share the meat with Andy and his brother. Never had to buy steaks at the grocery!