I've got a whole drawerful of photos from my 20s which I never open because I'm no longer with the same person. I don't want to throw away the visual record of a decade of my life, I don't want them cluttering my house, and I certainly don't want to have to sit down and go through them. Argh!

My own feeling is that you should keep at least some photographs of your wedding because Frances will want to see them.

Interesting and slightly relevant article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/family/story/0,,1842472,00.html

IMHO? Keep the photos. I was glad my mom did b/c there came a point when I was older that I wanted to see them, this record that my parents had been married. My mom even shared some stories of that day. I think in her memory that day remained a good day because it was innocent of the ending, KWIM? And after time, I think even she enjoyed reviewing the photos with me...so much time and water passed by then. HTH. (HUGS)

P.S. As for marriage, well, anyone who claims to have a perfect or shatterproof one is in some, well, I don't completely believe it. Sometimes, the right decision as hard as it may be is to end it.

Put any photos aside for Frances, please.

I have my parents wedding photos because my mother did that for me and I am really happy that I do.

I concur re: wedding photos. And here's an idea for the dress - cut about a yard of material from it and put it away. When (if?) Frances gets married, you could make something for her to carry from it. Or you could put pieces into a quilt for her. Or something.

Her preemie clothes: Pick one or two items and keep them. Give the rest to your local NICU? Artwork: Keep 10 or 20 really special ones and let go of the rest. "Really Special" means that you remember the day she drew it. That way you can tell her the story of the day she drew it when she looks at it later.

Sending lots of love and supportive thoughts. You're doing the right thing.

I am glad my parents did not stay together, but it was still hard. I wish I had my parents wedding photos. I don't know it would be something to hold on to when my parents were happy. Now they seem sad and bitter people even though my dad is remarried and my mom has a boyfriend.
I am sure those things have to be hard to go through.

I split our regular photos and took the wedding ones. I have put them away, along with my wedding dress, and rings for Kid L to have when she gets older.

The majority of our stuff I left with my ex because I honestly didn't want it any more. I kept the ornaments, my good dishes, and the like.

As for marriage and divorce, I took a cue from my mom: never say never. That holds true for most situations because you never know what can happen and you can never know how you will react until you are in the situation. We all have certain things we can put up with and it is not for anyone else to say what that should or should not be.

Yet another voice saying "save the photos." Frances will want to look at them, and see how beautiful you looked. Although it did not end as you had hoped, it is the event that led to her being- and therefore to be valued. I would keep the dress too - either for the good ideas noted above, or for the less meaningful, but maybe fun idea, that it might make a fun dress-up dress?

My Mum kept a 'best box' of artwork for me. It was a large empty chocolate box, and she put in probably on average 2 or 3 bits of artwork a year. Generally they were the ones that were deemed to particularly good. I remember that on occasions when I was pleased with something, I'd ask whether it might be considered for inclusion in the 'best box'.
It's really nice now looking back at it and seeing my progression, but at the same time it's small enough to store easily, and can be looked through in one sitting.

I like the idea of cutting a swatch out of the dress to be used in a quilt or wall hanging. You could do the same with some of Frances' baby clothes. Put it all into one quilt/wall hanging/whatever. And save a few photos, at least. My mother has a couple of photos from her wedding to my dad. She never looks at them but I remember enjoying them when I was younger.

My ex took the wedding album and burned it. Which was lovely. *roll eyes*

It is sickening how societal norms make you feel when you get divorced. If you talk to other, normal divorced people, they will assert that sometimes divorce IS better - better for the parents, better for the child/ren, just better. But you never hear the so-called experts say that. It's crazy-making.

I say keep the photos and sell the other stuff through consignment, especially the dress. It's a pain but money's money.

Both my kids wore preemie clothes, by the way, not for many weeks but they did wear them. I saved one piece and gave the rest to a neighbor who had an itty bitty daughter. It made my heart swell to see that baby in the clothes that my babies had outgrown. It seemed like good luck for that little girl.

Regarding marriage: as a married person I have to confess that preparing for the eventuality of divorce feels like bad faith. As if I expected it to happen or hoped it would. I have prepared for widowhood though, and while scary that seems right and proper, since I have kids.

As a (currently) happily married person, I would like to say that I don't think all marriages can or should be saved. And I try really hard not to judge those whose marriages have broken up, because nobody except the participants knows what really goes on behind closed doors. Nobody. And most people I know feel the same way. And as a child of two parents who I desperately wished had divorced when I was young because we were all so terribly miserable together (my mom waited until we were in college), I do weigh in from time to time re divorce because it did affect me just as much as it did my parents.

You are doing what's best for you and your daughter. Please remember that and ignore those who think they have the right to judge you. They don't.

As for the photos, put them away for your daughter. She might like to have them someday. And I'd recommend saving a few 'special' baby items and selling or donating the rest...

18 days... I hope they go by quickly for you so you and your girl can start your new lives.

I assume that this post is at least in part directed at my post of last week. If you don't want this comment on your blog, you have my permission to delete it.

I certainly don't think all marriages can or should be saved. And I don't think anyone divorces lightly, so I wouldn't second-guess the decision. (Rather, like ewe above, I spent much of high school wishing my parents would go ahead and get divorced and be done with it).

And I agree that if the problem is that divorce leads to poverty, we should be tackling poverty rather than divorce. But I think that this should be at the societal level, rather than blaming people who made choices that worked for them, assuming their marriage was going to last.

Another vote for keeping the photos. Stick the album in the bottom of a deep box, pile a bunch of stuff on top of it and forget about it for awhile. Once day Frances will want to see them for herself. They are, after all, a part of her personal history.

As for the dress? If I was in your situation I'd do something with it... like fly it up someone's flag pole or hang it from a very tall tree. Or stuff it in a waterproof tupperware container and set it afloat. But that's just me. :)

Good timing! Lecture in Child Psychology today was on effects of divorce on children.

Balanced for SES, children of divorce do as well in the long term as children whose parents stayed together.

The prime determining factors for outcomes are: Level of Conflict (pre- and post-divorce); SES after divorce; and whether there is joint custody.

Joint custody has the best outcomes because a) it limits the levels of conflict, b) it raises the SES, and c) it provides the child with 2 less-stressed real-life parents who are both willing to do the hard work and be involved.

If there was high conflict pre-divorce and there is low conflict post-divorce, the outcomes are actually BETTER than for high conflict marriages.

I seem to be with the group here in that I think you should take the wedding phtots. Keep them in an out-of-the-way place so that Frances can have them one day.

The dress, I'd say, clean it, and sell it on eBay or via consignment. That way, you're shed of the memories of it, and you might earn a little bit of money.

Can you get a three ring binder and some plastic page protectors for Frances' art? That way it's compacted, portable, and protected from dirt and damage. You and Frances can make the book together of her favorite art projects, and whatever you don't want to keep, offer to Erik for him to put up in Frances' new room at his place.

As for marriage and HAVING to stay together -- no. Not when everyone involved is miserable. Not when you've given it all you have, and had it thrown back in your face. Marriage is *partnership*, and partnership does not mean "Andrea knocking herself out to make it work when her soiuse is cheating." Like others have mentioned here, my parents were two who really needed to get divorced. My father was the only one of the four of us who was happy, but that was because everything went his way. That's no way to run a family. You ARE doing the right thing. For ALL of you. Even if it hurts like hell.

I can only imagine how you must feel, Andrea. As always you articulate things in a way that just makes so much sense. A few things - when I was getting married, I remember my Mom gently asking me if I was absolutely sure because nobody goes into marriage planning for it to end. She also saved her wedding photo album for me and I looked over it, imagining that these people, my parents, once loved each other so much. It was valuable for me. Likewise, I sort of cringe at the thought of cutting up the dress to save bits - why not donate it to a charitable organization if you don't want it? There are places that make dresses available to women who might not otherwise be able to afford them. This seems to fit with the values you have expressed here, I know you're environmentally and socially conscientious.
I haven't commented because I haven't always felt I had something to add, but I do want to say that you are doing absolutely the right thing for all involved and especially Frances. She might not always see it that way, I know I didn't always thank my Mom for what happened, but I realized the other day that my parents have been divorced for more than half of my life... and I know that she did absolutely the right thing. It took a lot of strength on her part and yours too. I was happy because of it, I don't think I would have been otherwise!

I'm not sure about the dress - somehow doesn't seem as important. But I think you should save the wedding photos. My parents divorced when I was in my teens and my mom almost threw out the photos. I begged her to let me keep them. They might hold the same importance to Frances one day too.

Throwing my hat in the 'keep them' ring. Frances deserves to see that there was a time when her parents loved each other and were happy together - that she was conceived in love; and those photos are probably the most concrete proof of that. It might make her sad, but I suspect it will be important to her at some point.

As for 'smug marrieds,' anyone who thinks like that is a fool. I am (I think) happily married, but it almost seems like a roll of the dice. Okay, some of the divorces I've seen I could have predicted from the start, but there are others that come right out of left field and end for reasons no one could have predicted, least of all the couple. You can work and work at it (and should), but sometimes shit just happens.

I see the debate as a bit like the abortion debate. Those against it always point to the stupid women they can find who cavalierly use abortion like birth control (I knew one of those, once), ignoring all the women who go through it agonizingly, because their physical or mental health is at stake. Just because some people toss their marriages away the moment they are dissatisfied doesn't mean there aren't many couples who just shouldn't go on, for everyone's sake.

No one who knows anything about your situation could imagine that you made this choice lightly. Divorce sucks, especially for women.

Callie, that was a good article, thanks.

And thanks to everyone who weighed in. When was the last time I've seen such consensus? I guess I'm keeping some photos.

Elizabeth, I agree--and it wasn't, but it is a partial reply to some of the conversations I found following the links. I can see why you would think it was a reply to your post, though, and I'm sorry for the confusion.

Liz, thank you.

Sara and Stacey, thanks for delurking; it's nice to meet you.

Sorry, to agree with everyone,but you have to keep the photos for Francis. My parents were divorced when I was a toddler, and my mom kept my photos for me. It not like I look at them everyday, but its a moment and side of my parents that I never knew and would have no way of picturing otherwise.

In your shoes, I would keep some of the photos, and any letters you have, because if my grandparents' and parents' histories are any example, you're not going to be able to give Frances a very clear explanation someday of why you married her father, and any documents from the time might feel more real to her. (In other words, by the time Frances is old enough to ask the questions, you'll have re-written this story a few dozen times, but she might want to hear from the person who lived it at the time. Or not. It all depends.)

I'm startled by the idea that anyone writing about divorce would be writing from a position of inexperience. I'm happily married right now, but my sister was divorced, my parents and my in-laws were divorced, my maternal grandparents were divorced, an uncle, an aunt....Surely most of us have some experience with the situation? I'm sorry that you're running into so much judgementalism, because it seems entirely undeserved and unwarranted and rude.

My two cents re: the photos.

Three of my best friends have parents who divorced when they were kids, and all three of them have a picture hanging on the wall of them, as a child, with of their parents, happy.

I think it's a validation of themselves, somehow. That they came from a place of love, maybe; or maybe it's also that a photo makes their parents' union real, since there's no sign of it in the present.

Re: the wedding dress -- you can make a note to think about what to do with it a year from now; you're allowed to postpone some decisions.

There have been good ideas posted about the photos and the dress. I concur.

And you are right, it is difficult to talk of divorce if you are not near it.

I feel for you. You are brave to make the leap of faith that it takes to move on. Very brave.