Honestly? My view (and I know it's not a popular one) is that, in general, parenting is far, far less important than people seem to believe.

I'm with you on this one, Andrea (oh, surprise, surprise, I know!). Not being abusive does not equal being a good parent.

I don't know what to do. I have broached difficult conversations with some parents I know with 'Damn this is awkward, but you seem to be getting more trouble that you need to from that kid, and you've probably already tried this but what about...?'

Otherwise, I just try to be a useful adult to the kids in question. I try to make myself available for whatever they might be seeking from me when I'm with them. It can be draining (damn introversion). But I can't let myself off the hook of being part of the village that's raising the kids I know.

The big question is not "should we?" but "how do we?" My brother-in-law is verbally abusive to his kids. It doesn't matter what anyone says to him or in what context it is said. He simply will not listen and he seems incapable of change.

I am a hot-head and when I lose my temper with my daughter, I end up with a million little regrets about my verbal anger. It's gotten to the point where I've told my husband I'd like to seek help or support on the issue. I came to that realization myself. If someone else had told me I had a problem, it would not have made the problem better. In fact, it might have made the problem worse.

Niobe, in general I think you're right. A lot of the issues most of us get caught in are probably not all that important in the big scheme of things. But I do think there's an important difference between, say, losing your temper and saying, "Get your fucking boots on right now, we're going to be late!" vs., say, "Oh my god, why the hell did I ever have kids? What's wrong with you! You fucking slowpoke, you're making me late!" Badly written examples, but that second kid is going to be worse off than the first one, even if neither of them end up drug addicts living on the street.

Mombie, yes, that was surprising. ;) I've tried that sometimes too, being a friend to the kid--it just feels so frustratingly insufficient sometimes.

Mad, good for you. It's never easy to admit to our parenting flaws in front of a professional.

I hope something gets through to your BIL--but you know, even if it never does, I think that kid will be better off knowing that someone else saw what was happening and didn't think it was ok. It might be a small difference but I think it counts.

Oy this is a doozie. I don't think there's much we can do, and personally I'm not sure we should, unless the parent is asking you for help. I totally agree about the great gap between good and not abusive. But it seems like the same challenge as when someone is being self-destructive. You can't help people solve problems until they admit to the problems. And I'm betting they may not see those moments as failures. I think there's a lot of "that's what my parents did and I turned out fine" (non)thinking going on.

But that my off the cuff response. And like Mad, I'm also interested in getting help about all the yelling I do. I don't like it, I don't like myself when I yell, and yet I keep yelling.

I think it's the rare person who is emotionally healthy enough to accept parenting advice from a friend without resentment, and an even rarer person who would be able to apply that advice in fruitful ways. Unfortunately, people THAT healthy probably don't need any advice from the rest of us.

To which I would add, it's the rarest person of all who has the gift of proffering that advice in a way that maximizes the possibility of a good result. But such people do exist - the ones who can do it directly, and the ones who can sneak it in sideways, disguised as commiseration.

While violent video games as a 'reward' for a small child are bad enough, actually this is what stood out for me. "I've seen times where the mother puts a boy in time out--and the father tells him he can play--and the mother puts him back in time out again--and the father tells him he can play--both of them in the same room, at the same time."

Parental undermining is incredibly damaging. I grew up in a house like this, a house where mom and biodad hated each other and would constantly undermine each other trying to gain advantage with my sister and I. It's a horrible, horrible thing to do to your kids, trying to get them to prefer one parent to the other. Really screws them up.

Obviously, I'm in a minority here, but here's the thing: Not everybody is going to agree with how everyone else is raising their kids. What looks like bad parenting to you might work for them in their unique situation. I don't think, as long as these are loving parents who are not abusing their children, any of us are in any position to judge. So I guess my answer to your question is that I don't think we should intervene. I think we should mind our own business and continue to do the best within our own unique, imperfect parenting situations.

bea, that is a good point.

RH, I disagree. It wasn't so long ago that physical abuse was considered a family's private business as well, so long as it "worked" for the husband or parent in question. I question how parents undermining each other in front of their kids, or calling their children names, or being unable to identify their children's needs, can ever "work" for the kid.

It might "work" for the parent, in terms of being the best they are capable of doing at that moment, but that doesn't mean it's acceptable or harmless. And the problem with saying "it's none of my business" is that the child (you'll have to trust me on this one) grows up thinking that no one else cares, no one even sees what's going on, and that is a horrible place to be.

Take the mom out for tea away from the dad and the kids and say, "you really seem like you could use some emotional support. Do you need a sounding board?"

Or take the dad out for tea away from the mom and the kids and say, "It seems sometimes like you and your wife are not on the same page around the kids. Do you need sounding board?"

I know watching my sister and BIL parent is like scraping nails down my proverbial blackboard, as they bicker constantly about how they should do it in front of the kids.

But then I figure I probably have a few foibles that gets their goat. Like offering unsolicited advice. So I shut up - they have good kids, luckily, so the only result (thus far) is an ability to play their parents against each other and a tendency to be over-sensitive.

I don't know if this is right or wrong, but I tend to like children more than I like adults, so I typically just deal directly with them. Even if it's just a kid at the park that I see for twenty minutes, if they are up to something that I find unacceptable (picking on others, hitting, etc.) I go up to them, make eye contact, and say "Don't do that, it's hurting that person". If it's a kid I know a little better, I get a little more involved with something like, "I know Mom and Dad don't mind when you do xyz, but other people do. You are growing up every day and turning into a big kid who can do things for him/herself, and this is something you can do. I know you can learn how not to do xyz, and I think that your friends will be very happy when you do."

If it's something that their parents are doing to them, it's more like "Your face looked upset when your Mom said xyz. Were you feeling upset too? I can see why you would, that would make me upset too. Would you like a hug (or high five, or to play something, or whatever is appropriate to the situation and how well I know the kid)?".

Typically I don't do this right in front of the parents, but I will do shorter versions, or just ask if a kid is okay. I think they usually can understand plenty and do well with directness, and like I said, I like them more.

This is why you're a good nanny, Abbey. :)

That's good advice, Liz. I'll remember that.