Wow, that's a rough one. We actually DID have a kid flush a toy down our toilet and we had to hire a plumber in order to use the toilet again. I wanted to deposit the bill in that kid's parents' mailbox, but my husband talked me out of it. Instead we avoided the kid.

We ran into him at Todd Lake about 3 mos later and WHILE HIS MOM WAS RIGHT THERE the kid started pulling the legs off frogs.

Not to compare C to our maniacal neighbor... I guess I'd have a talk with Frances about why C might do something like that, and then I'd have a one-on-one with C. All kids can use another concerned adult in their lives, I think.

Oh...Jennifer's answer is good. Except that in your one-on-one with C., I would add to it, just a little.

Maybe mention that you've got spy cameras planted everywhere, and that you KNOW what really happened (lean in and say it all hush hush-like and confidential). And then, draw back. laugh maniacally and then stop abruptly - mentioning casually, breezily, airily, that if one toy ever goes missing again when Frances is with her, that Frances won't be allowed to play there again, and C. can then only play with Frances, right there, in your living room - because the floor there is a lie-detecting floor; and if she tells a lie while on it, a special chemical will be released and red dye will spray on her and she'll forever be branded a liar. Or, her pants will burst into flames - you never know what's going to happen with with lie-detecting floors. (And show her some red marker you've scribbled on yourself, pulling up your sleeve suddenly and pretend to try to rub it off frantically, muttering something about "It was only one more cookie!").

Then, cuddle them both close and Pinocchio to her, stressing the nose and the donkey part.

I'd apologize to the family downstairs, first.

And then I wouldn't let Frances bring toys over to that girl's house again, or play outside with them and that girl at the same time.

As for the girl herself - I don't know. Confronting her might help, or it might make her sneakier in the future. I don't know, I have no advice on that front.

First, I think I'd get really mad. And swear a lot. And hate on the kid quite a bit. Then, I hope, reason might set in. I think you handled it beautifully with Frances. I do think you need to let C know that you're on to her, though. Maybe just have a heart-to-heart with her about how sad Frances was about both toys that went missing. Ask her how she would feel if HER toys went missing...

I don't know what *I* would do -- but I know that when I was little, once my parents sussed out that sort of behavior in one of my neighbors, I would not be allowed to play with that child at all.

I'm on your side but I can see where it's a fine line between teaching your child bitter cynicism and the skills to evaluate a situation for herself. I think that I would lean toward having a conversation with C's parents over having a one-on-one with her myself, mostly because if someone were to decide to lecture my (theoretical) child about her behavior without talking to me, I suspect it would really annoy me.

BTW, what about the 'you can like C without liking everything about C' talk? I know that even as an adult if I like a person I want to idealize them and that so very rarely works out well. It's hard to learn to separate the things people do from who they are.

I'd take the next opportunity to talk to C alone sometime, and explain very seriously that, while making things up is fun, getting other kids in trouble or upset with your stories is NEVER OKAY. Tell her that you want Frances to love the truth, and to never lie; and she'd love to have a friend who does the same.

And if that doesn't work, read her a bunch of unsanitized Grimm's fairy tales about the consequences of fabulation--that should do the trick.

I keep coming back to this because I'm also at a loss for what I'd do. In this situation, there are two people being hurt: Frances and the girl who got spanked for a crime she didn't commit. Frances is your top priority, and maybe letting C know that her charade did not fool you would make her think twice before pulling that again in the presence of non-family adults.

The next step, I think, is deciding how much action you'd want to take over the treatment of the little girl. Is it possible that C doesn't realize that her lie affects other people? Would it be reasonable to point that out to her? "And you know, C, So-and-So got spanked because you said she did something that she really didn't do. Is that fair?"

FWIW, I benefited on many occasions from an adult outside my family nudging me back in line - even as a child in elementary school. I think a nudge, in this case, could yield a positive in the long run. Maybe you and Frances won't see that outcome, but someone will.

It's such a crummy place to be, honestly. I'll be eager to hear how this plays out.

Another vote for talking to C, gently but firmly, about the consequences of lying. She needs to not feel as omnipotent as she did at that moment. I'd also let her parents know you talked to her, but I see absolutely no problem with trying to teach a neighborhood child how to behave morally (as long as it's not done in a scary, mean way -- which of course I would be SO sorely tempted to throw in a Pinocchio/Grimm/lie-detecting floors story).

I also think you should be commended for trying to foster "skepticism" in your child. It's a fine line, huh? But one I also think is critical.

Such a sad/tough story, actually... These seemingly mundane dramas of childhood scare the bejeesus out of me (I haven't yet had to deal with anything as seemingly serious since my boys are still 2.5).

I also go with talking to C. Trying to talk to parents about their child is a very delicate thing and usually does not go well.

My best friend when I was little was a sneaky, telling parents what they wanted to hear little thing. I remained friends with her but I knew what she was and if you know you can handle it better.

With Kid L I have dealt with "bad" friends twice. When she was 5, I kept her away from the little girl for a few weeks. That was enough to get the other girl to behave. Last year, I tore an 11 year old's ass because she was disrespectful to me which led to the conversation about her treating her friends like crap. I have to say that girl was a piece of work, the scheming and lying was amazing. Needless to say she never told her parents about our conversation b/c she knew I would tell them what had been going on and what she had been doing/saying.

I just feel badly for the girl downstairs. I know there is a language barrier but could you write a note to the dad explaining that you have learned that the other girl didn't do it?

I would if I could but I have never seen them before and I don't know where they live--it might not be in the apartment complex. If I see them again (whether at C's or elsewhere) I will talk to them then.

A lot of you have some good ideas about talking to C. I'll have to see when my next opportunity is and we'll see how it goes.

I feel sorry for the little girl who got spanked. That's not right. I would try and find some way to get the message across to her parents that she didn't flush the toy.
I would definitely cue Frances in on C's sneaky, lying-ass behavior. Gaah! I hate kids like that. She's a little manipulator and I'll bet she had a good snicker over the other kid getting punished and Frances' gullibility.
Frances needs to know there are people who will take advantage of her and they're NOT her friends. This is just another way of keeping her safe. There are plenty of nice little girls around. Frances doesn't need to waste her time with a liar and a thief.
My son had a friend who was neglected by his parents. We live in a wealthy neighborhood but this child was a phatic street urchin. He was let outdoors in the morning and allowed back inside at night. At lunch and dinner time his little face often peered at us through our front window. I gave him a pizza slice here and there and I bought him ice cream when the truck came around but then I got mad. the kid took over my son's computer and other toys. He sneaked banned CDs with very non-child-appropriate lyrics into our house. He stole $20 from my son's bank after suggesting, "Let's count your money!"
I went to his house and demanded the money back. His mother is Israeli and doesn't understand much English but believe me, I got my point across.
While he wasn't banned, I kept a close eye on him. I taught my son what a mooch is and how real friends reciprocate. Later, I helped the kid join my son's Boy Scout troop but when it became apparent that his mother wanted me to pay for his uniform and dues that was the end of that.
My son chose other friends and no longer hangs out with this kid. I hope Frances finds other friends.
Yes, C is a child but she knows right from wrong. I wouldn't allow my daughter to be a patsy for someone like that.

Thia is a tough one. I really don't have any helpful answers, but I can empathize. K has a kid in school who she just adores, and he is blatantly mean to her. I keep trying to diplomatically tell her that friends don't treat friends like that, but its hard to make her see.. he SPIT in her eye in front of all the other kids one day and she STILL loves this kid. aghh!